Friday, September 15, 2006

Popes Say the Darnedest Things

Joey Rats quoted Byzantine Emperor Manny P. v2.0 by saying 'Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached'.

Of course, Muslims worldwide dispel this "untruth" by totally flipping their shit and take to the streets acting like a bunch of coked-out monkeys trying to gang-bang a coconut. Man, do those people love to burn crap.

The thing that amuses me is that the media seems shocked by the whole fiasco. What the fuck? Has CNN gone through the last 2 millennium with the lens cap still on? Can't the New York Times staff read? Is the crazy homeless guy across the street right in his theory that all media is created through random word generators and psychic images? Soledad O'Brien is a robot!

Whatever. The media is clueless, and the Muslims should take a cue from the Catholics. Don't freak out and take to the streets every time something rubs you the wrong way... uh... unless that 'something' is a movie, a TV show, a book, an article, music, dancing, a painting, a sculpture, a performance art piece, a scientific research paper, anyone with beliefs slightly different than their own, etc.
Okay, screw the Catholics-as-example. I'd go with the Buddhists. You still get to burn things; only they refer to it as "self-immolation". Have fun with that.


Prairie Dawg said...

Yay! Let the games begin!

Michael K said...

I got into a very rational conversation one night with my cab driver who happened to be wearing the muslim garb so we started talking. Very nice guy. Very secular guy. Hates Americans who support the war and hates muslims that support terrorists. The extremists on both sides always have to fuck up everything for everybody else.

Lately, we have done nothing if not prove the extremists points for them and winning them more recruits. These folks are not well educated and live in a religious state in which their faith is rarely questioned. If rural churches in Mississippi started preaching support for hate crimes (think 50s and 60s civil rights era south) and there's gonna be a whole lotta lynchings.

Faith can be a very good thing for some people as it can bring peace and a sense of purpose to people. It is also the most dangerous thing in the world when it is interpreted literally and people manipluate others with it. The Koran is not the only text that has a whole lot of calls to violence. The bible's got a whole lot of stoning and killing in the name of stuff too. Good thing is, most Christians no longer believe in the bible as a strict rule book to how to live your life but more of a guide that can be interpreted to suit modern moral constructs. We shouldn't be dropping bombs on these people. We should be dropping science books (minus any chapters on nuclear energy) and texts dealing with rational thought and scientific reasoning. A few pictures of kittens in American flag shirts wouldn't hurt either.

Michael K said...

Oh... and Soledad O'Brien IS a robot.

edP said...

What's new about spreading religion with violence? The Roman Catholic Church had legions for empire conquering, subduing and converting or at least establishing the religion that Constantine found.

Christ said (I think) he and his teaching would divide men rather than unite them...that the sword will follow blah blah blah...

I probably shouldn't blah blah blah my Lord.

Michael, while there may be many folks on the Arab street who fit part of your profile - I'm not sure if the leaders and even some of the more important men closer to the footsoldiers are all that uneducated...if atta is the kind of recruit that helps wage this holy war...the guy probably had more college math and science than you and me put together.

Michael K said...

You're right , Ed. A guy who thinks he is going to heaven after killing people to meet an army of virgin brides is very well educated.

edP said...

You said drop science books - do you need to know something about math, science and maybe some physics to get a degree in architectr & pursue a Masters in Urban Planning at the Tech institute in Hamburg????

The person in question probably isn't a rocket surgeon - but I bet they've picked up more math and science than the two of us put together

And there are a lot of people that study physics, chemistry and biology that still believe a lot of fucked up shit.

Take Michael Behe (sp???) - the intelligent design guy - now hopefully some of the institutions that gave him his numerous degrees in biology will try to ask for them back...but just because he is well educated in science doesn't make him well balanced in the head/heart/soul/whatever - and he prefers to believe in some mystical puffs of smoke rather than good evidence from evolutionary theory

Those who know me know that I am not a science bashin' Catholic - I think that there are many fields of study that help provide human beings with ways of understanding soething about the world in which they live...but what was intimated in your response - that with scientific understanding comes something like enlightenment and helps people live together reasonably - I just wanted to question that...

...because the position sounds like part of this "belief" in science or math as the language of the universe that I find so ridiculous. From the 19th century on, philosophers have burned a great deal of energy attacking every language except math - I'm sorry did we really discover math as irrefutably the "language of the universe" - or is it simply the best, most universal model we have. The difference is important - the blind belief in it makes math go from one of the most useful human tools to hubristic bullshit!

um, I better shut up now

edP said...

I like the kittens in American flag shirts

DC Liar said...

The argument that the fundamentalists are naive goat-farmers is a dangerous misconception. These people are immersed in learning from a very early age. Hell, even Osama bL attended the most elite schools and holds a couple of degrees.

Before anyone here can even start the debate on the level of education in the Muslim world "education" has to be better defined. The Wahhabist and Shi'a branches of the Muslim faith indoctrinate children (of both sexes) into rigorous study of Muslim faith, the Koran, mathematics, and regional history starting at the preschool level. Is this myopic type of study education? I say "definitely".

And as for the "70 virgins" argument; There are countless highly intelligent people in the Judeo-Christian world that believe that when they die, they'll be greeted up in the clouds by a bunch of old guys in flowing white robes accompanied by all of their beloved childhood pets. It's called 'faith', and who's to say that it's all false hope*. Granted, the western world has lowered the heat of their fire and brimstone over the last few centuries, and maybe by 2500AD there will be an Islamic equivalent of the Church of England. I'm not gonna hold my breath.

Fuck, if your gonna play the faith game, who's to say that the Muslims aren't backing the one true god. As scary as that might be, It's just as feasible as any other theistic construct. If vehemence is any indicator of absolute truth, they're way ahead in the running.

We're all boned.

*aside from me

DC Liar said...

Wow, let's hear it for the late-night comment storm!

The one issue that everybody seems to be side steppin' is my assertion that the Catholic church is incredibly hypocritical to be callin' out the Islamists for spreading faith via the sword and blowing innate annoyances way out of proportion.
That's like Kweisi Mfume calling the kettle black.

edP said...

No, I said that at the beginning of my comments...and interestingly enough - becuase Pope Benedict was speaking to a bunch of dry academics...there is a reason he quoted a past political ruler who also represented a "way of wife" -

Anybody who understands history knows the dirty secret that culture (including religion) tends to be promulgated by war. That's the way humans are. I don't think it is hypocritical if the point of the Pope's lecture was to draw his audience's attention to geopolitical comparrisons between the earlier "empire" and the one in force now.

The end of DC's first comments are the most interesting to me. There is a prevailing and definitely modern view of Chirstianity and faith in general that it's ok as long as it allows every one to play nice, behave at dinner parties and during international conferences...but the minute it means anything or has any consequences - forget it - it's just irrational.

The Ghandi quote about Christ taken completely out of context 'If more Christians were like Christ...blah blah blah (I probably shouldn't blah blah Ghandi either)

Christ was always raising a rumpas - calling people hypocrites and vipers and turning over tables.

Now, the New Testament (and history) is pretty clear that Christ didn't come to raise an army himself - but armies were raised and wars were fought in his name (right or wrong).

And again, the Christ we get from the NT says he knows this is coming.

From the point of view of the serious believer (or certain serious believers) there is no greater reason for going to war than religions ones. The fact that we in the modern West dismiss people now or in the bast who wage holy war as barbaric might be just another way of us saying 'there's nothing really worth fighting for....especially my dopey religion that I practice for the sake of being nice'

I should probably just blah blah blah myself at this point

edP said...

"way of life" fuck

DC Liar said...

Sorry Ed, I was tippin' the bottle last night. By the time I got my last post It had been 3 slugs of bourbon since I read your first post.

Oh, and I like "way of wife" better (even though it made me squirt coffee out of my nose).

edP said...

My nickname used to be Freudian slit

edP said...


Lady Di )O( said...

"We're all boned."

Can I use that?

Olekobe said...

We bought a Moroccan rug at disneyworld on our h-moon, so we're ready.

Prairie Dawg said...

Cr'itchens has a good rundown, pretty much saying what you (DC L) are saying.

Prairie Dawg said...

And at any rate, it's kinda funny that Il Papa decided to rattle a stick over the bars of the cage.

"Oh no no no, I didn't mean to imply..."

Michael K said...

I am not saying these folks are stupid. All I am saying is that the education they receive is deeply flawed considering the culture that surrounds everything they say and do. If I learn a lot about aeronautics to serve my god by flying a plane into a building, that is perhaps not the best education in the world.

They have lately given Christians an excuse to start doing the same shit to American kids:

I got a feeling that these kids are gonna be euthenizing (saving) old rickety atheists like me in 20 years.

Michael K said...

Also, the intelligent design guy was told a lot of things but decided to ignore the facts when they didn't suit him or manipulated the facts to suit him. Just because you have a degree doesn't mean you are not an ignorant jackass.